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Understanding How Money Works EP 3 | Growth Beyond Limits Podcast | Dr.Phil & Joseph Metcalf
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Are you working hard but still feel like money isn’t working for you?
In Episode #03 of Growth Beyond Limits, Dr. Mercidieu “Phil” Phillips sits down with Joseph Metcalf to break down what it really means to understand how money works. This eye-opening conversation goes beyond surface-level advice and dives into the principles, habits, and strategies that separate financial stress from financial stability—and ultimately, financial freedom.
If you’re an entrepreneur, leader, or someone ready to take control of your finances and build lasting wealth, this episode will challenge what you think you know about money and give you tools to move smarter.
🔥 In this episode, you’ll learn:
• The fundamentals of how money actually works
• Common financial mistakes that keep people stuck
• How to shift from earning money to making money grow
• Practical strategies for building wealth and financial confidence
This isn’t just about making money—it’s about understanding it, mastering it, and using it as a tool for long-term impact.
👉 Don’t forget to LIKE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE for more episodes.
🎙️ New episodes drop every Monday at 8AM
Welcome to the Growth Beyond Limits Podcast, a dynamic podcast designed for aspiring entrepreneurs and early stage business owners aiming to reach their first million. Each episode features high impact conversations with business leaders, innovators, and personal development experts who share actionable insights to feel both professional and personal growth. Growth Beyond Limits. Go where you need to be. Because I think one of the major things that everybody is pursuing is how to make money. But today we're going to talk about money in a different way. And I've invited a very good friend of mine, one of the people that I have the privilege of mentoring, who's a business leader, just a thought leader. And let me introduce our guest to you today. His name is Joseph Metcalf. He so he serves as the CIO of Gouday Metcalf, a family office investing in disruptive technology across energy and finance. He has over 17 years of entrepreneurship. He began building companies in college, by the way, with many great success and failures, while studying biochemistry and business at the University of Eastern New Mexico, where he also competed in track and field. We'll talk about that a little bit later, how many meets he actually won. Since 2021, Joseph has engaged in two tech and managed two tech focused funds for the Metcalf family, delivering 80.5% compounded annual returns over the past four years in their flagship fund. In 2019, he pivoted the family's focus and capital from real estate to Bitcoin and blockchain. Ooh, I like that. Infrastructure with the current emphasis on financial market plumbing and structure. Outside of work, when he's not busy helping people make a lot of money, uh, you'll find Joseph at the park with his two children, trail running or enjoying enjoying God's creation. Faith, family, and friendships anchor his life. Um, he believes true fulfillment flows from a personal relationship with uh the Lord Jesus Christ and serving others. And so I'm so excited to welcome to this episode of the Growth Beyond Limits podcast, Joseph Metcalf. Joseph, welcome and uh go ahead and introduce yourself a little bit to our audience and uh thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm uh identical twin. I'm from uh small town in Nebraska, Norfolk, Nebraska, and uh I'm just a regular guy, um, ran tracking cross country in college, met how many meets how many meets did you did you win? Uh not a lot, but uh a couple important ones. And um my wife is from this area, and uh we're just super excited to be back here. And um, you know, I just had the privilege of building small businesses for the last almost 20 years now, and um had just tremendous success, tremendous failure. You know, the first one uh, you know, I borrowed some money from my father and lost it three days later. Um we we were in firework retail and uh a storm took everything away and it was uninsured. So um been there, done that, hit the stupid button. So um I'm in the club.
SPEAKER_00I like I like the idea of hitting the stupid button. So listen, we're gonna jump right in because I know our audience is hungry to hear from you and to just glean from the years of experience that you've had. So, my first question that I want to ask, or the first point I want to ask, is what does a healthy relationship with money actually look like? And how can someone tell if theirs needs work, their relationship with money? Because everybody has a relationship with money. Tell us what does that look like?
SPEAKER_01Here's the truth. In this, I'm not excluded. The truth is a lot of us are stressed because of money. Because if you're building, you know, this is geared towards, hey, you're an entrepreneur between 25, 35, 45 years old, or even older, and you want to make your first million um, or you just want to get better at money. And um in the same way that I pay for pursue coaching to get better in certain areas. So um the truth is a lot of us get stressed out talking about money or managing money because it's hard. We need it to survive. So here's kind of my base case of what is money. So I just see money as captured energy. So you would, you know, uh let's say you charge me for coaching$500 an hour or whatever it is, and you're gonna capture that energy, and you're gonna take that money, put it into the US dollar, and technically speaking, the US dollar should be the median of exchange, it should be stable, and you can take that and exchange it for another good or service. So I just see it as, you know, you put in an effort, you capture that energy. Now, why do we get stressed out about it? Um it's important. And I think when we try new things, um, when we need something to survive, um, it's just really easy to feel out of control. And when you feel out of control, you know, that's your fight or flight mechanism. You know, if a lion's chasing you, you know, you go out. And a lot of that time, you know, a lot of times that's uh produced in the form of stress. Right. Now I would say a healthy relationship with money is to realize, yes, it's very difficult to make money, but it's a tool. And um the focus shouldn't be on the tool you're using. Okay. Okay. Okay. So you need money to run a business, you need money to grow a portfolio so you can have um, you know, a sustainable life. But you know, I would say if you're only focused on the hammer that you're using, you're not looking at the building, right? And vice versa. So um I think that's super, super important for uh younger and older people to realize that um money's a tool.
SPEAKER_00Money's a tool. Right. So let me ask you a question. In your experience, working with people with who have lots of money and they're investing it, what are some of the common mistakes people make early on and how can someone avoid them?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so here's a here's a really big one. So personally, I don't borrow money on businesses. Um, you know, starting businesses are really, really high risk. Okay. And um, but I still think you should start the business. You know, we borrow money on things like commercial real estate and certain investments, and we don't borrow money on anything consumer because they go down in value. Um so when you say consumer like a car or cars goes in down in value, you know, a table goes in down in value, a cell phone goes down in value, that sort of thing. So um, but if you're going to borrow money, here's a common, common mistake that's pretty controversial. Um, you know, the banks spend a lot of marketing saying, hey, you got to have a credit score, you have a good credit score. Well, there's a little nuance to that. So um you either want a zero credit score or a high credit score, but as an entrepreneur, you shouldn't be focused on the credit score.
SPEAKER_00Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01There's a different credit score that the wealthy use.
SPEAKER_00And oh, so talk about that. I wanna I want to hear this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the wealthy don't go the middle class credit score route. So it's the banking credit score. So um, a big mistake entrepreneurs make is they go to a big bank, like a Chase, a JP Morgan, a Bank of America. You're just a number, okay? If you walk into Bank of America with a hundred million dollars, you're a number to them. They don't care. That is such a small amount of money.
SPEAKER_00$100 million will not move Bank of America or Chase's.
SPEAKER_01They won't even know your name with$100 million.
SPEAKER_00How about a billion?
SPEAKER_01Maybe. But I even I I heard of a billionaire recently, and he uses small banks for this reason. So you walk into a small bank like a credit union, everybody knows your name. You want a younger banker or someone your age so that you can age with that banker and hopefully it's someone that stays there. What you're doing is you're developing a relationship and you're building rapport with that banker. Wow. And um, so it's kind of like a credit score, but that banker has the keys whether they want to loan you money or not. So I'm not encouraging you to loan money, but if you're going to borrow like on a commercial property or something, or even a house that goes in value, most people don't know you don't need a credit score to buy a house.
SPEAKER_00But having a good credit score doesn't hurt either.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it does not mean it shows responsibility, it's just I would say having a credit score out of just regular daily activities, if you have a good one, great.
SPEAKER_00But it shouldn't be the benefit from having a good credit score. Absolutely. When I went to purchase my vehicle, um, the the salesman was like, hey, just pick whichever car you want, the color you want, no money down. Uh you got three months before your first payment because your credit score is top tier. So I benefited from that.
SPEAKER_01And let's talk about why they did that.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So um you had a lot of interaction with debt over time, and you're doing that same thing with that banker. Right. So that relationship is really key. So what I did is in 2018, which wasn't that long ago, I bought my first commercial property,$27,000 at a small little lot, and I put$6,000 down and I borrowed$22. They just looked at two years of my income and a pay stub, and I slowly went up from there. And now we can walk into that bank, get seven figures in one day. Right. So, why is that important? It's basically a person credit score. Right. And um, so I would say to the younger entrepreneurs, if you're gonna if you're gonna borrow money or you need some capital, don't go to a big bank. That's a humongo mistake that entrepreneurs are.
SPEAKER_00That is such good information. Now let's let's pivot a little bit. How should someone prioritize between saving, investing, and paying off debt, especially when money feels tight? Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so it really comes down to what are your goals, what are you working on?
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So um, if you're in consumer debt, you know, you explain that consumer debt.
SPEAKER_00Explain that a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01You know, consumer debt is non-productive debt.
SPEAKER_00Okay, give me an example.
SPEAKER_01When you're sleeping at night and you bought a motorcycle as a toy and you put it on a loan, that is a non-protective debt. So not only is it costing you interest, your motorcycle is going down in value. Wow. Now, if you bought a duplex and you house hacked and you're renting one side out and you live in the other side, that duplex is accreting in value as you sleep.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So you don't want to, if you're gonna borrow money, you don't want to put money into something that goes down in value because it's working against you.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So here's my admonition. Everybody's situation is a little bit different, but I typically tell people, hey, if you got any consumer debt, get rid of that right away. Because here's the deal. Let's say you want to invest, and a lot of young people want to invest rapidly in the market, or or if if you know you're working on a business, you got to invest in that. Um, if you've got an 18% consumer loan and you get that paid off, it's almost like making 18% in the market or making 18% on your business. Wow. So it frees up liquidity. So here's the reality: if you're a hard-driving entrepreneur and you want more, you want to be extremely successful, sometimes$500 a month is the difference between you succeeding and not succeeding.$500 a month.$500 a month.$500 a month.
SPEAKER_00We're saving or investing?
SPEAKER_01Uh well, let's say you're investing your business. So in my 20s, we were investing 50% of every single dollar that came in the door back into the business.
SPEAKER_00Wait a minute, 50%. So if you made if you made$1,000,$500. You were investing five right back in the business. Yep. So that means that required that you live a lifestyle that's very modest.
SPEAKER_01I made I think$38,000 my first year, and we are investing 50%.
SPEAKER_00So how'd you live off of the other 50%?
SPEAKER_01Small apartment. Wow. Not going out, own an old car. Um, you know, these things aren't aren't sexy. Um but this is what it takes for entrepreneurs if you want to get to the next level. Because the problem is I've seen people that want that lifestyle while they're trying to build a business, and it significantly hurts.
SPEAKER_00So they're competing. So they're competing against people like me. No, the priorities are competing. You want the lifestyle, but you and you want to build a business, but you're not sacrificing for your long term.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. So, like that comes to decision making, I'm sure we're gonna touch on. So when we make decisions for our business, we're thinking 50 years. Wow. Is this gonna help us in 50 years? Is this good for our business? Do you say 50 years? 50 years.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Wow. So let me ask you a question. Um, for the person who's listening, that that entrepreneur, that that driven, that, that success-driven person who's probably running on a treadmill right now or on a stairmaster, or they're driving to work and they're listening to this. Um, what is the smartest way to start investing without feeling overwhelmed or scared of losing money?
SPEAKER_01Uh, that's a great question.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So if you want to be successful, you have to invest. It's not an option.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Because the problem is, and we're not going to go into it today, but the US dollar, it debases.
SPEAKER_00And people I want you to explain that a little bit, because we had a conversation about the the US dollar. Explain that a little bit. Okay. Take about 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_01We're the reserve currency of the world, and the world needs US dollars, so we have to provide dollars to them. No one ever tells you this stuff. So we have to print about 8% more dollars every year on average for the last hundred years. And people are so your dollar goes in val down in value. Now, the news media will tell you, hey, it's probably two or three percent. That's called inflation. Well, debasement is not inflation, it's just there's more dollar units out there. So if you're not investing to counteract your dollar going down, you're in big, big, big trouble.
SPEAKER_00So investing counteracts the depreciation of the dollar.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. So if I have$100,000 sitting in a bank, next year it's going to be worth about$92,000.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Yeah. Did you say$92,000?
SPEAKER_01$92,000. Because what is think about this? Um, inflation is consumer specific. So for you guys entrepreneurs, right? Uh you need a camera set, uh, you might need a truck if you're like in a building industry, you need something. That's going up in value more than 8% per year. So in in a backward standpoint, it's like your hundred grand is worth 92 this year because you can't buy as much. So um that's why investing is so key. Whether in in I've done two types of investing. I started investing, well, actually, three types. Investing in your business, you can do market investing, and then you can invest in yourself. So if you're not doing one of those three things, you are at a significant advantage, and every year it'll just get harder and harder and harder.
SPEAKER_00That is so that is such good information because I think a lot of people, they just want to make money and they think about investing, but they don't understand how money actually works as far as it depreciates when it sits in the bank. Like you just said, if you had$100,000, um, by the end of the year it's down, it's worth$92,000. But the bank is making money off of the money that you're you have sitting in the bank. That's a whole nother podcast by itself. So let's talk real quickly. Um, how do you balance long-term investing and short-term financial goals? You probably already answers in everyday responsibility. How do you how do you create a uh a rhythm between those?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so here's I'll just give you my example because it's it's real easy. So um, from about 19 years old to about 27 years old, I didn't have a retirement. I wish I started early, but I couldn't. Right. I was putting everything back into our painting business. We had a farm that failed, we had another business that failed, and you know, that's key. A lot of the stuff you try is gonna fail. You're gonna burn a lot, you're gonna figure it out. Um and so you have to decide and prioritize what do I want to do first? Now, for you all thinking, hey, I'm 22 years old and I make$35,000.
SPEAKER_00Or I'm 50 years old. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It, you know, um, your biggest bang for your buck, number one, invest in yourself. And you know, it's a little bit cliche, but it's really true. So I made a commitment in 2017. I was uh running a paint company at the time, and I could listen to a podcast all day long because I was on the tools and painting. Right. I got like 10,000 hours easy of listening and learning. After about five years of doing that, doors started opening. Like let's, you know, behind us is a Blake Canvas, and you know, there's no windows in there. But when you get really, really good at something, you have a lot of information, you can see things other people can't. Right, right. So the humongo difference between a young entrepreneur that's not very good and someone more seasoned is just knowledge. Right. It's really a knowledge gain. So you've got resources, and it's hard to determine how do I spend those resources. So knowledge is number one. Right. Nice part is it's really inexpensive now, and it's your time. Wow. You know, you can do that. Um, number two is if you're an entrepreneur, you invest into your company. You know, so I spent the first, you know, nine years or eight years, everything goes back into the business as I can. And then number three is passive investments. Now, you have to get to at least two of those. If you work for somebody else, you're not gonna do the entrepreneurship route. And so it's really about priorities.
SPEAKER_00Give give me an example of a passive investment because we're I got a lot more to ask you.
SPEAKER_01Okay, passive investment would be, you know, you hear people talk about like a 401k. That's just an or a Roth IRA or a 403B. That's an umbrella. That's not the actual investment. Everybody's buying the same thing underneath. Um, a passive investment would be like an ETF or a mutual fund. It's basically a pile of money and there's a fund manager, and they go out and buy, let's say, a hundred different shares of stock.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Or a passive investment would be hey, I'm gonna buy a rental property that's kind of active if you don't have a manager. But those are those are types of passive investments, you know, buying Bitcoin or buying gold, that's considered a passive investment. You know, they fluctuate up and down, but over time they appreciate. And so if I put my hundred thousand dollars, or let's bring it down to earth, one thousand dollars into a passive investment to get started, if you're real young and you're not interested in business and you just want to go right in, right? Time, it you know, Einstein said compounding was the eighth wonder of the world. You don't realize if you're 23 years old, your dollar, you know, inflation adjusted, your dollar is gonna 13x if you get just the market rate from you know 23 to retirement.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. Um that's so good. So let me let me ask you, I'm kind of moving this along here because I want I want our audience to glean from you, because you you manage quite a significant uh resources for people, and so I think they're by listening to this podcast today, they're gonna be positioned to start thinking differently about money. So what what should people think about the risk and investing in? How do they know what level of risk is right for them? So let's talk about the risk level. How do you know?
SPEAKER_01So um, I've got this uh saying up on my whiteboard I see every single day. It says uh risk management drives performance. Okay, you know, can you say it again? Risk management drives performance.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And so um Warren Buffett would say uh rule number one, don't lose money. Rule number two, go see rule number one. Okay, so um, when you're first starting out, you're gonna lose money. And um, you know, I I recommend people, hey, let's say you're a nurse at the hospital, hey, get a good investment advisor that helps you along that journey. Um but you have to start now and just start small.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And as you gain more information at the as time goes on, you can see those risks and navigate those risks. For instance, um we do something that almost no one does. We we have a highly concentrated portfolio. Right now, we're just in three names. Okay. It's an eight-figure portfolio in three names. Okay, most people would say that's a lot of risk, but we know a lot about those businesses. So um, as you know more about companies investing, you can make a better educated guess. For instance, like CB here, um, I have no idea how to run, you know, a media company.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01He knows where to put the money. I don't. I can't put my money in a media company. Now, for the average person, how do you manage that risk, like in retirement? Um, you know, a lot of us think we're stock pickers and we want to do it on the side and all that stuff. I just recommend, hey, if you want to get your gambling streak out of the way, just make sure it's less than 10% of your money. Um, but you know, if if you're a nurse or a doctor or you've got a career and you're not on the entrepreneur side, so you don't have like a business to invest in, right? You know, you're probably buying four ETFs, you know, in four different sectors, inner, you know, 25% in each, uh, international, large companies, medium companies, and small companies.
SPEAKER_00Man, that's so good. Um, I know our time is kind of running by real quickly. Um, if someone could focus on one financial decision and This year to improve their future. What should it be and why? If someone could focus on one financial decision this year.
SPEAKER_01I have to give two, one's non-financial and one's financial. Go ahead. The financial one is you have to have margin in your budget. You have to have it. So what you want to do is you want to expand that gap between your income and your expenses so you have money left over at the end of the month. Because when you have money left over at the end of the month, you can what? Pay down debt, you can invest in your own business, you can invest in other people's businesses, you can invest in retirement, you can save for large items, you can do all sorts of stuff. So the wealthy have budgets. I know everyone doesn't like to hear that. I've got a budget. Um, I use an online app that does it automatically, connects my bank account. But you have to tell every single dollar where to go, give it a job. So that, like we're down here, you know, on vacation. You know, the$15,000 we spent to spend a month in Florida, um, it's we told it to go to the hotel. We told it to go to the ass. Yeah. It wasn't.
SPEAKER_00I met a guy one time that told me the first time, the first time um we had a meeting at Starbucks, the one of the first things he said is he has a plan for every dollar. I never forgot that line.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so that is really key. Most people are not in control of their finances. They don't, they, they're just working and it goes in and it goes out. So um I I would say the first thing you got to do is make sure there's margin and tell your dollars where to go. If you're gonna be stupid, be intentionally stupid. If you're gonna be smart, be intentionally smart. And um a follow-on to that is you know, apart from, you know, I I'm a Christian, I love the Lord with all my heart. So um, beyond the spiritual side, you're gonna be the same person today, a year from now, except for two things. The people you meet and the information you take in.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's let's let's let's rewind that. You're gonna be the same person you are today a year from now. The difference is gonna be the people you meet and the information you take in. That, ladies and gentlemen, is worth the whole podcast that you you just got. You wanna break that down a little bit for like 30 seconds? We got about 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_01So your extreme wealthy people realize that it's an information game. I hired you to coach me a few months ago.
SPEAKER_00And I'm I'm enjoying it.
SPEAKER_01Why? I needed some accountability, and you have some leadership expertise. I don't have. I have to go to the marketplace and find that. So I'm really gleaning information from Dr. Phil. Right. Okay. Number two, I can glean information from books, podcasts, YouTube. Uh guys, the tools at our disposal today are absolutely incredible. Twenty years ago, we didn't have anything in this. You had to spend mountains of money finding this information. So, right now is the easiest time in world history to start a business and be successful at the business. But the key is, you know, people are complaining, prices are high, life's tough. Absolutely, it was. Last year was the toughest year in business we've ever been through in our history. Um, but you have to have the information to navigate your business, navigate retirement, navigate investing.
SPEAKER_00That is so good. Um well, listen, I I I I can't believe how fast our time has gone and the information uh that uh Joseph has shared with us um today. If someone wants to connect with you, um obviously we're gonna have the show notes. Um that's gonna be part of this, and uh, we're gonna have information on how they can connect with. But if someone would connect with you, how do they do that?
SPEAKER_01Uh they can, you know, the easiest place is go to X. It's Joseph T. Metcalf is my handle, or you can email me at joseph at metcalfcapital.io. Say it again, say it again. Uh Joseph at metcalfcapital.io. And um, you know, I don't sell anything. We we run family money and our partner money. Um, but you know, I'm just excited. You know, reach out if you have a question. I'd love to point you in the right direction. Also, Dr. Phil, I'll tell you what, we on the drive over here, he was telling me some of his mentors, it it just blew me away. So um I whether whether you're in the Fort Meyer area area or not, like we do a lot of stuff on Zoom. Um, it's just you a lot of times you have a wealth of knowledge of business leaders right in your backyard and you just don't know that. And you know, we talked about investing. I'm very, very happy to pay for mentoring, happy to pay for information for someone to walk alongside me because you know, X number of dollars an hour for mentoring, if it could save me a hundred thousand dollar mistake or a ten thousand dollar mistake, it's money well spent. And I'm gonna figure out how to do X, Y, Z, but I don't want to take that much time. I want to take the shortcut, and that's the information game.
SPEAKER_00So you you you pay some time to save yourself from having to pay later. Listen, thank you for joining us on the Growth Beyond Limits podcast, where we want you to break through and grow beyond. For more information about the Growth Beyond Limits podcast, look, click on the link with the show notes and uh how to connect with us, all that is uh provided for you. We're so excited that you were with us today, and we hope that you'll begin to develop a great relationship with money and you'll begin to see your money grow and you can be on your journey to making your first million or your next 30 million. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you for tuning into the Growth Beyond Limits podcast. To follow us for more episodes, please subscribe to our YouTube channel, follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and all social media platforms. Also, to get downloadable PDFs, visit us at levelupoutcomes.com. Levelupoutcomes.com. Growth Beyond Limits. Go where you need to be.